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chadowens
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Vectorworks vs. AutoCAD |
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I have been using Vectorworks for 15 years, since it was Minicad, v.7, currently using VW 2008. I've followed its evolution and expansion, and I would consider myself a true power user.
Recently I got a new job in an office that has traditionally used AutoCAD. For years I've been aware of the fact that AutoCAD was the "original cad program", and is considered the industry standard for architects and engineers, blah blah blah. Back in the day I even took some chiding from experienced cad operators for not getting on the Autodesk bandwagon.
I am resigned to using AutoCAD 2008 here in this office, and I am quickly gaining proficiency. One thing I have learned is that there aren't a whole lot of people who are truly esperienced at using both platforms; it's opposing camps, and there's a lot of denigration of the "other", based on ignorance and insecurity.
I have to say honestly that I think Vectorworks is a much better platform, and please trust me that I have no connection with Nemetschek or any of its affiliates, nor do I have anything agains Autodesk.
In general, Autocad still clings to the "command line" as a necessary interface. This means you do a lot of typing, which, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with drawing. Just to draw an arc, you might have to press 3 or 4 different keys, not counting multiple hits on the space bar or enter key. In Vectorworks, you can assign any key to any task, so if you don't want to use the cursor to pick a tool button, you can opt to press JUST ONE KEY, and voila, you're using that tool, you don't even have to press enter or space. So your keyboard will last twice as long.
Here are several specific areas where VW beats AC hands down:
1. lineweights: AC has the most bizarre, ancient way of dealing with lineweights, a holdover from when plotters really used different pens to plot different lines. Now that almost everyone uses dpi printers, this outmoded approach is stultifying. In Vectorworks, any object can be any lineweight, you can edit and create custom lineweights easily, and the lineweights are properties of the objects themselves, not tied to layers or to an objects color, as AutoCAD users prefer.
2. layers: AC has layers, VW has layers, but VW also has classes, which are like layers, but add a whole new level of organization lacking in AC.
3. multilines: want to draw a polygon with parallel lines? In AC; good luck. It's limited, quirky and buggy. In VW it's a piece of cake, there are 4 different ways to do it, with the offset parallel line to the left, to the right, equally spaced from the defined vector, or at a settable offset, and it only takes a few clicks to get started, not going through some elaborate setup scheme like in AC.
4. arcs: AC has a very limited way of drawing arcs, and most users suggest that you draw a circle, then draw lines and edit away the parts you don't want, leaving an arc behind. VW has 6 different modes for drawing arcs, super easy and intuitive, and highly accurate, no editing required.
5. move: In AC, like the arc tool, you have to click several times just to move an object from one location to another, even using the newer command system based on grip handles. With VW, the cursor is also the move tool, so when you pick an object, you can just move it immediately, no further key commands required. Want to move and copy? Just press and hold the option (alt) key and it leaves the original and creates and moves a copy.
6. drawing scale: In AC, to quote from AutoCAD for Dummies, "Changing the drawing scale factor of a drawing after you've drawn it is a tedious and complicated process in AutoCAD." It's really ridiculous. In VW, you can change the scale with a click, at any time, and change back and forth, to any scale you can imagine. Also, in VW, each layer can be at a different scale, so you can have enlarged details, or different many different scales all on the same drawing. In AC, everything has to be at the same scale. True, you can display different scaled views of parts of your drawing in AC, but you have to set up viewports and it's not that easy. Managing scales is much easier in VW.
7. text: what a hassle in AC! Defining text styles = headache. In VW, you can type away, in any font you want, at any size, on any layer, you can pick a text object and rotate it, flip it, whatever you want. You can even change true type fonts to polylines, and edit them like any drawing geometry. AC 2008 has annotative text properties, but even this new development is clunky and bizarre. In VW you can use simple tools that define leaders, drawing labels, titles, etc., that stay the same font size, regardless of scale changes, if you want, or you can just type straight text that follows the size changes of the scales.
8. platforms: AC only runs on windows, VW works great in windows or mac.
There are many more comparisons I could make where VW beats AC, but I have yet to discover a single thing that AutoCAD 2008 can do better than VW 2008, if anyone has a specific example I'd love to hear about it.
If you still doubt me, try "why I love AutoCAD" in a google search; you won't find much.
If you're weighing options, I would urge you to consider Vectorworks. Maybe if enough users make the switch, VW will become the industry standard, and the world will be a better place for it.
Bring it on, AutoCAD lovers...  |
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F700ES
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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1. Yes, I can apply any thickness, color or linetype to any object regardless of layer settings if I want to.
2. Perhaps these are like AutoCAD's "Layer States" or "Layer Group Filters"
Sounds like a nice feature.
3. Cool, I guess I could just draw my Polyline and then Offset the desired distance.
4. 
5. You can also click on the object and use the center grip as a move option. The center grip will act as a base point.
6. I draw 1 to 1 in AC and print to what ever scale I need at the time. I have heard the arguments for and against this and I will just stick with drawing to full scale. It works better for me.
7. Yeah, text styles may seem weird but they are not so bad. It is nice to define a style like detail text with a specific font and size. To each their own I guess.
8. You never know, Acad may come back to the mac? They said that they won't but what people say and do are sometimes different. I remember Steve Jobs saying that would never jump ship from the PowerPC architecture and well, we all what happened there 
Good to see another point of view on the different approaches each application takes to accomplish similar tasks. I tried VW several years ago, it just wasn't for me. Too used to ACAD I guess. I prefer a command line based system myself. Works better for me. I work faster that way. Less clicking on buttons.
Cheers
edited for typos |
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chadowens
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reoply, F7.
A couple of clarifications:
2. "Layer States" and "Layer Group Filters" are ways that AutoCAD can display and manipulate layers. Vectorworks has better versions of these same functions. What VW also has are "classes", which are a whole, completely separate organizational structure. Objects can be in different layers, and at the same time in different classes, so you can exponentially magnify your org. schemes.
4. Nice image of the arc tools, but you missed my point. In AutoCAD you have to navigate through several command lines to initiate the arc function, and then once you start drawing, there are fewer ways to do it. Though it looks from your graphic like there are 11 different methods to draw an arc, in fact, there are really only 3, with some methods having different directions, etc. In VW there are truly 6 different ways, each of which has multiple options: arc...
by radius
by three points
by tangent
by two points and center
by two points and radius
by two points and point on arc (three points)
5. You can't move anything in AutoCAD unless you select the move tool, which involves at least two keystrokes. In VW, the move tool and the pick tool (cursor) are the same, so no typing involved in selecting or moving any object.
6. Of course everyhing drawin in VW is drawn in full scale, 1 to 1, it's just that you can display it all on the screen in whatever scale you want. There is no distinction between model space and paper space, like in AutoCAD.
If you think about it, there is a lot less clicking of buttons in VW than with AutoCAD. If I want to draw a rectangle, for example, I push the 4 key,(or any key I prefer to assign to the task) then I am all set to start drawing rectangles, with no pressing of any other keys, no clicking on buttons, whatever. And also, I can keep drawing rectangles forever, without pressing any other keys, until I start some other operation.
In AutoCAD I have to type REC then press space/enter, (or go pick the rectangle button with the mouse) before I can draw just one rectangle, and then I have to press space/enter each time I want to draw another one. So actually working in VW is much faster than AC.
Nice to see your different point of view. I understand that when you know a system, you're not crazy about learning a new one. I'm just trying to disabuse people of the misconception that, since most people out there use AutoCAD, it must be because it's a superior program. If anything, the folks at Autodesk have no motivation to seriously improve their system, they just let it ride. Nemetschek folks have been striving as underdogs for years to improve their approach, and the VW of today is much, much better than it was a few years ago.
Thanks again, F7. Happy drafting!
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F700ES
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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4. My image was just showing how there are many ways to draw an arc. I think whoever told you about the "other way" needed to research the commands a bit more. Heck, I feel that ACAD has too many arc commands but I am sure someone needs them.
5. Draw a line. Click on it, select it's middle grip, now move it to it's new location. This also seems to work with blocks and their insertion point.
This works on my '08 machine. Seems to be using the stretch command but it does move the item based on the grip point.
6. I like Paper Space, I set mine to display plot styles. This way I get a true display of the plotted sheet. I remember the old days on r9 when it was cumbersome to plot.
Good example of the rectangle command but you can set any 1 key to invoke the rectangle command. I don't see the big deal of having to right-click (spacebar or enter) to enter commands. My other hand is already on the mouse. Did you learn VW on a single button mac mouse way back when? What about running out of keyboard buttons for commands, do you do the alt-shift-key? Sure "L" for line but what about polyline? "P" key might be already linked to a command. Or construction line "CL", what if "C" does circle or copy? I don't care for this myself. I am getting used to it in things like Illustrator and SketchUp but I don't feel as fast in them as I am in ACAD.
No disrespect, I honestly think you are making it more complex than it really is. But I am also not in your shoes and having to learn a new system. I do think they all could learn something from each other...AutoCAD, VW, PowerCADD and the rest.
Good discussion.
Last edited by F700ES on Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget Rhinoceros also
_________________
The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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F700ES
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Antisthenes wrote: | | Don't forget Rhinoceros also |
As if we could ever forget Rhino!
All kidding aside I do like Rhino. If I was doing industrial design it would probably be my tool of choice. |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Learn more about Rhino in Architecture at these events:
Mar 28 - Explicit History workshop
London, UK
Mar 31-Apr 01 - RhinoScript workshop
London, UK
Apr 7-9 - The Mathematics of Aesthetics, RhinoScript Master Class
Berlin, Germany
Apr 7-9 - 3D-Modelling Symposium. Sophisticated Tools in Architecture, Design and Engineering - Call for papers
Berlin, Germany
Apr 9-10 - ParaCloud Professional workshop
Barcelona, Spain
Apr 9-11 - New Strategies, Contemporary Techniques. International Architecture conference.
Barcelona, Spain
May 12-13 - VisMasters Design Modeling and Visualization Conference
Boston, MA (USA)
Sep 13-16 - Advances in Architectural Geometry - Call for papers
Vienna, Austria
For Rhino 4.0
This is a partial list of what is newly available:
SR3 for Rhino 4.0
RhinoPhoto (Beta)
Forten3000
RhinoScript101 primer
ArchCut, Sectioning and Paneling Tools
Maxwell Render 1.6
RhinoResurf
Werken met Rhino 4.0 (Dutch book)
Rhinoceros per professionisti (Italian book)
Rhino 4.0 Upgrade guide
RhinoLabs
Penguin 2.0
Mosaix for nesting
ParaCloud V1
RhinoTerrain (Beta)
Pointools (Beta)
RhinoReverse 2
T-Splines
Brazil (Beta)
VisualArq (WIP)
Explicit History (WIP)
Math plug-in
Featured projects and users
mesne - experimental architectural design
Blackpool’s Grand Theatre
Institute for Membrane and Shell Technologies
Methods of Representation at TU Graz
Auditorio Santa Cruz de Tenerife by Calatrava, 3DM model and study
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if only i was in Europe the Rhinoceros in architecture wave is choice there now, not like it is not in my own office, but those cool events are something i would defiantly attend.
_________________
The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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