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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1144
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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 Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Glad you asked! Here's some honest feedback:
The arched window is inappropriate to the style of the house, which looks pretty normal but not bad to begin with. With the tall arched opening, it looks confused and pretentious, and therefore cheap.
The third garage bay makes the garage dominate the front of the house - very bad impression.
Unless you're going to do a total make-over, to get a good result you'll want to work with the existing structural style and concept of the house, rather than trying to change it.
Images two and three show something like an architectural beefalo, or jackalope.
To get toward a more positive approach to your upgrade, I'd suggest listing some of what you like, and don't like, about the exterior appearance of the existing house, for a start. (What's wrong with the roof line?) With more basics in mind, folks in this forum might be inspired to help!
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the quick input.
The window depicted was all I could find of the web - have done various sketches and find that a subtle arch top with fine munions looks quite good - fully admit the example used looks terrible - the top is too round, munions too pronounced and inconsistent with house style.
Also good input on the left side addition
Again, we find the dominant inverted V roofline unatractive and lack of presence to the entryway in need of attention. Without major roofline changes, need a way to completement shape (gentle archtop window) and add to the character of entryway.
Also, find the front too two-dimensional; want to add depth and character.
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1144
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Your house has a distinct structural style, somewhat buried behind anachronistic shutters and such.
That inherent style is all about wood, straight lines, modest cantilevers, and comfortable angles.
An arch is all about unit masonry, about how to bear forces down to earth with a bunch of small pieces.
Fundamentally they don't go together.
Another way to consider this, is that a beautiful facade has harmony among its parts. What other part of the facade has curves that would harmonize with an arch-topped window?
With sincere respect for your willingness top put out your thoughts: in my experience working with design challenges, words like "unattractive" or "needs attention" are good for expressing a personal impression, but are not so helpful in getting past impressions to the essence of a situation.
For instance, when someone says they want part of a building to be "more interesting" it seems to be a clue that they have yet to get serious about understanding the situation. To be "interesting" parses out to be 'different from what you expect': it is only negative, about difference; it has no positive value in finding where a design should be going.
"Interesting" wasn't your word. I'm just going off to the side a bit to make and emphasize a point.
If the goal is to fulfill your personal impressions, then there's no need to ask us. If the goal is to make something more beautiful, that also fulfills your deeper needs for it, then let's keep peeling down the layers of the opnion to find what's really in the middle.
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the attention. Please, be sure that the window was just an initial attmept to improve the curb appeal of the home and was founded in photoshop folly.
Nonetheless, I find myself not knowing enough about architecture to understand or answer the questions you posit.
We want to improve the curb appeal and make the entry more welcoming (sorry if this/these is/are the wrong adjective(s)).
What would be your suggestions for working with the style and enhancing it with a view toward curb appeal and entry design?
Althernatively, can you provide some more pointed questions or guidance on the information you would like me to provide for the forum.
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1144
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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The images certainly worked in terms of get me involved in your siutation! 
Now I'll take some more time to think about what directions might be suggested. It won't mean your inquiry is forgotten. Maybe others will contribute in the meantime.
One question... what's your climate there?
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1716
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum. If I could ask a few questions:
Does the foyer space rise to the roof? Would more glass above the entrance door help the space inside by providing more light?
Is a third garage bay, and an extension of the room(s) above, a requirement?
Is additional shelter leading to the entrance a practical necessity, or a desired appearance upgrade?
What is the floor plan of the entry; are there stairs near the door?
I would echo the thoughtful comments made by Kevin. The roofline does a nice job of directing attention to the entry, which occurs directly below its peak. Calm, order, rhythm, and repetition of a limited pallete of shapes, are all aspects of appealing and impressive architecture. While an arched window might be something you admire when you see it on a traditional building, this house is not an appropriate place for that shape, I believe.
The most noticeable defect of this entrance is that it is squeezed too tightly to the garage. Because of this, and because you mention the desire for a more welcoming entry with more "depth," I am going to suggest a replacement of the entire entry-bay door and wall with a glazed window-wall, ideally going to the roof, composed perhaps of a white wood grid of two-foot squares of glass, with a solid flat front door or pair of doors, centered on the width of this window or, possibly, moved to its right margin, away from the garage. The door can be a nice spot of color, if you choose.
This intervention will provide the drama and depth you seek; at night, it will be a glowing welcome to the house. It will also respect and complement the architectural style of the structure, in my opinion.
If for any reason this approach is unacceptable, an alternative that would retain some of its appeal would be a single-lite glazed door, or pair of doors, probably with patterned or frosted glass. Again, at night, this provides a welcoming warmth to the entry.
Best wishes to you -- SDR
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Some additional food for thought:
| Quote: | | would like to (1) take attention away from awkward (invented V) roofline (2) draw attention across house - right side of home is very unnoticable |
Limb up the trees for starts as they take away from the view of the house on the right side....can't see the house through the trees.
| Quote: | | ..improve entry, upscale look of home ....and add three-dimensionality to front of house |
Pull the entrance foyer and a substantial welcome area forward from the plane of the house, using the existing roof line angles to compliment your new roof pitch addition. This might be 10 to 15 ft wide, could be higher...and depending on the right side windows you dont want to interfere with. Pull this entry feature forward far enough to make a 3 dimensional statement, using more modern type windows that match the style of the house. You can have larger glass where needed and add closet space if necessary too...
| Quote: | | we seek to ballance the inside with the outside |
By pushing forward and adding volume of the house in the front, it will create the illusion of the balance you are looking for....composition of this element needs to be right for the rest of the house in style and geometry.
| Quote: | may also contempate adding a small pergola above the new entry following the roof line 8' to the right of the peak and 2' to the left supported by columns extending down to the entry walk. The walk will need to be replaced, widened as well.
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All these are ideas that can be explored in the new pull forward additional volume. What you don't want is something added that projects too high above the remaining house, or it may jump out at you ....that being too obvious.
| Quote: | | contemporary look is good |
Yes agreed with that. The arched window you are trying to show is leaning more to the traditional style, not modern.
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
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Location: Northeast
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1716
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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[Ideally, we would keep all posts on this topic within the same thread.]
I think you're close to it with these two recent images. What I'd like to see is as much of the tall "garage wall" in the foyer, lighted by glass, either by bringing a strip of it to the floor beside the door, or by using a glazed door. The quality of light on that wall would be greatly enhanced by having the glass go as close as possible to the wall plane.
I like the appearance of the c18" panes; however, they don't align in any way with the pair of doors shown in the last image. The second-to-last image, with a single door, is better for these two reasons (light + alignment); the only problem is that the interior layout seems to call for the door to be where it is now, opening against the wall and not directly in front of the primary stair to the living room. If that is true, then a custom a door with glass lites coordinated in size and location to the surrounding glazed wall would fit the bill, I think, or a standard single-lite glazed door, 36" wide and aligned with two of the three rows of lites above and beside the door. The idea is to create a single composition from floor to ceiling, of which the door is a part, rather than cutting the plane in half, with doors below and glass above. The fact that the top of the door aligns with the bottom of the living room windows is a fortunate coincidence, in any event.
Because of the asymmetrical design of the facade, I find the single topiary indicated is preferable to a formal pair.
The original style of the house is mid-century American modern; the horizontal proportions, simple geometries, roof shape, projected roof beams and bands of windows, as well as the recessed garage plane, all point to this. Shutters were added to the house at some point; while not properly a part of this style, they seem to work well proportionally. If the furnishings in place speak to the tastes and preferences of the owners, then there may be an understandable desire to move away from the "clean and simple" aesthetic associated with modern architecture. My comments have been aimed at reinforcing and complementing its modern "bones" --but this may not be the direction preferred by you and yours.
Thanks for letting us comment on your interesting problem -- designers like nothing better than a challenge! Let us know what happens.
SDR
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for the new thread - accidental.
Thanks for the comments. How would you address the privacy issue with the lower glazing? If the lower glass is opaque and upper clear this might draw too much deliniation between the two and not give the contiguous looks you are suggesting (and sounds quite good). Pretty sure a full light door is orderable with custom grid to space properly - little extra cost. Might be able to do the whole thing with only a few windows and custom grids (much lower cost than separate wood windows).
Will have to reasearch available windows; how do you account for the breaks in pattern by potentially needed header(s) breaking up the array?
Dead-on on the house age - built 1967; entire right side is addition (Master bedrm) 1987; other additions out rear. Many other houses of this shape in area have no shutters, never seen this look too good; windows over garage are always too small; look like portholes; shutters seem to ballance the size. Only time no shutter seem to look good is when the front is dressed up like a faux tudor but this has its own problems.
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1716
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I'm a little surprised at the small size of the windows over the garage. One technique used in this period, to create fewer and wider window blocks, was to connect separate windows into wider horizontal bands with an application of color between them. In your case, if a secondary trim color were chosen, to outline windows, doors, and the roof edge and beam ends -- a soft gray, perhaps -- that color could be used between the windows, to "collect" them. What kind of siding is on the house?
There are a couple of ways that the window wall could be glazed. Frosted (or acid-etched) glass would completely obscure details of the interior from the outside; a pattern of obscure glass ("privacy glass") could be had that would give a rough impression, from inside, of who or what was at your door, but still provide adequate privacy. I see no reason why the whole window and door shouldn't be glazed thus, top to bottom. Whether you could get insulating glass (Thermopane) panels made with such glass, I can't say. (Another plausible solution would be a glass-block wall.)
The problem of coordinating the mullion pattern added to a standard door, with the windows, is that the door will have wider stiles and rails than you would want in the type of window we're talking about. This makes it hard to carry the mullion lines through and still end up with equal-sized, square panes ("lites") throughout -- despite my earlier suggestion for this. Unless you went with a completely custom door, with a narrow frame, this wouldn't work. (Several manufacturers are set up to design and make complete installations of this type -- a Marvin, Pella or Anderson dealer should be able to give you some numbers.) So, probably a single-lite door, set into a window-wall of equal-size panes, is what you'll have.
This could be framed and trimmed in a couple of different ways; I would leave it to the finish carpenter who is to construct this (or other local professional) to detail it appropriately, with your input. The object would be a uniform grid, with all members alike in weight and depth (except immediately surrounding the door), horiziontals appropriately coped to weather, and with simple moldings and stops. The outermost jambs and casings of similar weight and greater depth, as necessary, to match existing. (A 2x6 set flat as a wall-to-wall header over the door, would be adequate for the live load of the door, I would think. This would suggest to me a 2x6 grid throughout.) All glass lites should be alike in size and as nearly square as possible, with the uppermost (sloped) ones starting at full height on the left, if the numbers work out. (The door will be 80" tall by 34, 36, or 38" wide, I expect.)
Well, that's a start, anyway.
SDR
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dbbarron
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Thanks-
1)Vinyl siding, roof line trip and beam ends are flashed in aluminum. Not painted. Perhaps some overlay trim pieces?
2)Wife and I were discussing lightly obscured glazing floor to ceiling - likely a good solution - mirror your concern re:availability of obscure glazing with an insulated glass system.
3)A 2x6 grid might be too chunky; let's see; 62.5" rough opening width, 2x2x6=11"; leaves 51.5" for glazing; thats 51.5/3 or 17" panels; door fits pretty close in this equation. Wondering if a form of aluminum grid (white or grey) commercial type entry system would be an option - not wood, but can get in any color; I see these all the time in tall configs with no apparent thick headers (storefronts) - must be the aluminum for strength. Suspect these are 'mix and match' type systems and can be made and had easily.
Pella does aluminum frame entries and windows will start with them.
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