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lekizz
millennium club
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1074
Location: UK
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 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Living small is certainly not the way to go. This planet has +6billion people to house and feed, we have gone well beyond the days of living in small rural settlements!!
Living with considerably reduced energy consumption is definitely a priority, particularly for the USA (and Europe), which is the biggest culprit for energy overuse per person. We pretend we are reducing our energy use and CO2 emissions when in fact we are exporting massive amounts of our manufacturing industry to evolving economies like China. The exponential growth of pollution, energy and resource consumption in China has a great deal to do with our own complacence.
And I agree, csintexas is being peverse by using this as another opportunity to bash architects. His own attempts to design a green house produced something pretty ordinary, from what I recall. Before residential designers sneer at other members of the profession they need to ask themselves exactly what they have done themselves to make the built environment low-energy. It is not an easy task, not the least requiring enlightened and far-sighted clients who are willing to risk their money on less common solutions (possibly more expensive in the short term). From my own limited experience, architects are well aware of the need for sustainable development and there is great expertise amongst us which is woefully underused. |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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chris,
| Quote: | | Your best effort as far as I know was to build a new house which just added to the problem. If this represents our best effort than we are doomed. |
If I give you two fish, you have food for the day, if I teach (show) you how to fish, you can feed yourself for a lifetime.
Building a new energy efficient house is part of the problem?.... Gee, I would have thought that a new house that consumes 75 - 90% less energy would be part of the solution especially if it encourages and demonstrates to others ways they can reduce carbon emissions, save energy and adapt similar technologies to their homes.
There are many, many design/energy related techniques anyone can use for their own home for a remodel, new construction or just working with what they have but some people really like to see it to believe it. An actual working model is a big plus.
Solar powered attic fans, solar air conditioning, passive cooling, radiant heat with evacuated tube technology, pv panels, rain water collectors, extra insulation/energy detailing, flourescent lighting, sustainable materials, reclaimed materials..................what's not to like??? 
Do you really think building such a structure is part of the problem or is thinking negatively about it a bigger part of the problem.....???? |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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The only reason I bashed architects in this thread in particular is because the thread was about architects. Everyone deserves an equal amount of bashing IMHO. Residential designers and builders are also not likely to solve the problem because it is not in their immediate best interest either.
| Quote: | | Living with considerably reduced energy consumption |
This is "living small".
I doubt you studied my proposals enough to make a valid determination of it's merits lekizz. I don't see anyone around here doing more to promote sustainability than I am. Do you?
| Quote: | Do you really think building such a structure is part of the problem or is thinking negatively about it a bigger part of the problem.....????
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I have not seen your house. Who is learning anything from it?
Yes I would guess it is part of the problem. What it probably teaches is that if we spend lots of money we can have the big house that we all want and it will consume a little less energy than the standard big house.
The only way we can solve this problem is if we start teaching about how to do with less. Over the past 30 years car engines have gotten 30% more efficient yet the average car gets 2 mpg less because of increased car size.
Of coarse the only practical solution is to stop having so many babies but America is a long long way from accepting such ideas.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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It is not that complicated.
In France a large number of new buildings have to follow a code for high environmental quality which covers all aspects of the buildings: materials, building methods, energy use and management, waste management, etc.
over a decade ago a competition was held among French towns for new urban transport systems. Here in Nice our new tram system is up and running. The cut in pollution (or whatever trendy little word one gives it) is substantial and the system is good and cheap to use.
Kevin is right - it needs action, but I cannot see the point in 'blaming' architects.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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People keep talking about blaming architects. Can someone please post a quote on that?
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I've never heard anyone not blame the architect for something going wrong on a job site. I'm just doing what I have learned through experience. If the job site is the entire earth, who else should we blame?
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, we'd like LEED (and EnergyStar) to be much tougher! And yet, look at the stats of how much is actually being built so far, certified to LEED (and EnergyStar) standards... such a tiny fraction, even at such a basic level. Looks to me like a dilemma that will take a transformation, not just an evolution.
Maybe not so much blame architects... but architects are in a relatively pivotal position... and we always talk about wanting more respect for the profession... What a great chance to step up and be worth that respect!
Maybe the proposal we unveil later this week will help frame such a transformational process. |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Chris, this is getting a bit silly, don't you think?
| Quote: | I have not seen your house. Who is learning anything from it?
Yes I would guess it is part of the problem. What it probably teaches is that if we spend lots of money we can have the big house that we all want and it will consume a little less energy than the standard big house. |
You have not seen the house, you don't know much about it, but you're the judge, jury and hangman? If it consumes 75- 90% less energy than a standard house, would that be a "little less energy" than the "standard big house"? There are houses that are totally energy self-sufficient, are they part of the problem?
And is any new techology that is more expensive than current technology just for rich folks. Some alternative technology is expensive but much of it isn't. Is a $160 (500cfm) solar attic fan that consumes 0 electricity only for John D.? How about a $6 shower head shutoff that lets you cut hot water use without losing the set temperature of the water? Maybe 2 foot roof overhangs are only for the rich and famous. Flourescent light bulbs that cut lighting costs by 75% won't put anyone in the poor
house. Are rain water barrels a luxury only a few can afford?
Yes, 15-20 thousand for a pv solar system is too much for most people, but if you demonstrate to someone the long term advantages of such a system, those who can afford it would probably sign on, and as more and more systems are produced, the price comes down (making it eventually more affordable for everyone.)
The challenge is unbelievably difficult, but being an obstructionist only makes the climb a bit steeper.
btw, the house is only 40% complete, but it will perform as planned, you can bank on it.  |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin wrote: | Yes, we'd like LEED (and EnergyStar) to be much tougher! And yet, look at the stats of how much is actually being built so far, certified to LEED (and EnergyStar) standards... such a tiny fraction, even at such a basic level. Looks to me like a dilemma that will take a transformation, not just an evolution.
Maybe not so much blame architects... but architects are in a relatively pivotal position... and we always talk about wanting more respect for the profession... What a great chance to step up and be worth that respect!
Maybe the proposal we unveil later this week will help frame such a transformational process. |
Ya know Kevin, when the great ones have doubts they stare at a tree for answers. Works every time.
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think people see these examples and basically say "well I can't afford to put all that green stuff on my house but I sure can afford to build one just as big"
Instead of calling them green I call them "we could do worse"
They set a terrible example for Americans just struggling to afford their little mcMansions but I admit I'm just making an educated guess. Please prove me wrong.
I don't mind LEED letting any house that does better than average into it's program I just hate to see what is considered to be gold and platinum rated.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I'll bite on the LEED Platinum issue. As of April, 2008, there are fewer than 100 buildings that have been certified LEED Platinum:
http://www.Archiplanet.org/wiki/LEED_Platinum_Certified_Buildings
If you have some specific examples of LEED Platinum Certified buildings that you do not think are fine examples of green building, by all means let's list them and pick them apart over in the "LEED and Green Certification Forum":
http://www.designcommunity.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=30
I guess from my perspective - and looking at those platinum examples - I'd flip the issue... being too easy on the low end ('just better than average') is more likely to be a problem than not being tough enough on the high end - as long as most buildings continue to be "just certified" then that's where the bulk of the change needs to come from.
A few great Platinums help show the way, and help push the standards higher, as they truly need to be. But real numbers in reduction of carbon emissions come from... well... real numbers... |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: |
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It is extremely difficult to talk about buildings on a case by case basis.
For example:
Donald Bren School of Environmental Science and Management at UCSB
http://www.bren.ucsb.edu/about/
What are we comparing it to? How about the equivalent building in use in 1900? How many resources and how much energy does it use compared to one built one hundred years ago?
What are the options? Could some of this space be eliminated all together by using online class rooms instead or by using other existing facilities more efficiently?
As you pointed out in your article, if we are going to make real progress we are going to need real solutions. Maybe the mega-university campus is no longer the most efficient way to teach.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project
Last edited by csintexas on Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:24 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| csintexas wrote: | I think people see these examples and basically say "well I can't afford to put all that green stuff on my house but I sure can afford to build one just as big"
Instead of calling them green I call them "we could do worse"
They set a terrible example for Americans just struggling to afford their little mcMansions but I admit I'm just making an educated guess. Please prove me wrong.
I don't mind LEED letting any house that does better than average into it's program I just hate to see what is considered to be gold and platinum rated. |
American architecture has set the bad example.
ever since Wright dissed Sulivan. I love bringing previous topics into the current context when they make my point. and mix them with other's good points. You can almost pin a date to when things went Wrong. It's about leadership and respect for the people who teach you and got you there. The old mallet shoulder hurts patting myself on the back. If I was an architect of today. I would hire someone to pat my back or ask my architect buddy to give me an award as a placebo.
Get the art out of architecture and focus on the science of it. Voodo isn't going to work, but I will voyage to Jamica to find out for sure.
If anyone wants to "doctor" the Earth, lets start with this.
Diagnosis: the art or act of identifying a disease from it's signs and symptoms
I believe this problem to be beyond anything that engineering can fix, but they could help keep the architects in line. Will the next FLW please step down, we got work to do.
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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generalizing will not get us anywhere but specifically looking at projected and actual performance will. working with the committee on the environment and helping to get better standards passed for buildings is not a easy task you run up against lots of obstructions, like big business sponsored politicians.
always pushing the envelop and challenging the LEEDers can be beneficial thou if you are using facts. I helped work on a presentation on challenging LEED for being a additive approach rather than a holistic one, last place i shared this i was attacked and banned but i do feel safer here than most places(forums run like mini dictatorships) and could share it as well as many of the sustainable green buildings I've worked on, mostly adobe and straw bale but as i move into working strictly on facilities and with newer technologies i do realize how big of a problem we have at hand and how hard the work will be as architects to take us to that revolutionary tipping point of awareness and action on a broad scale.
good luck and share because no idea owned by a corporation can benefit the human projects ability to have a continued existence on this planet we call earth.
some of the best solutions will be innovation that combines an amalgam of indigonus cultures environmentally adapted ways and the current newest sciences, i think, oh and trades that care about their work, understand the reasoning behind it, and do good detailing
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Wars are lost due to specific reasoning or in commitee, generals win wars. Are we in a fight for our survival?
My edits are for clarity of speech.
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