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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1862
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I see current existing building stock as another big issue.
Certainly there are limitations to what can be done. Our current methodology seems to be to tear it down and build something new. I think this is a poor choice.
It is a daunting challenge for me to figure out some way for my house to become efficient. Comparatively it would be much easier to design a new "green" house.
How do we modify an existing society built on cheap oil to operate with very little oil? Our communities are not made for light transportation.
While batteries can store enough energy for light personal transportation the big machines which run off of oil is a problem.
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Chris Stewart
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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reclamation?
reuse
recycling
of course all this takes energy to do but it saves the virgin resources and who really takes down stuff with care these days to get the most use out of the materials unless it is something historic.
what i have done is make Popins (eps foam covered in a reflective radiant barrier, one side white one side black) that i pop in and out of my fenestrations/windows depending on the need to stay cool or keep in heat.
(LEED innovation points ? j/k)
also solar shade hats that are based on the suns position to my latitude and what time if the year i think it is good to block out direct lighting (~equinox) think Spaceballs helmet...
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1862
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Have you gathered any good data on the savings with these pop-ins?
My better half would probably not appreciate them anyway but there may be a time that we really need that type of solution.
I know LEED has the opinion that doing something is better than nothing and I agree. That is why I am opposite of Kevin's opinion that the minimum requirements for getting in should be raised. For me, if the best someone can do is 10% better than todays poor standard than so be it.
LEED has picked a pretty lofty acronym. If they want to lead they should lead in a direction that we need to go and not just towards a vague understanding of the goal. By definition a platinum building should be the best we can do. It should produce the world that we need to transition to in the not to distant future. Allowing mediocrity at the platinum level only serves to confuse the real problem and the real solution. We need clear leadership.
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Chris Stewart
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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my elec. bill was 13 dollars last month.
but they really have the most effect in the extreme heat and cold situations
I am taking my LEED AP tests soon so i will let them know, but know that i am no absolutist , not best not worst but different...
i do have a energy performance testing guy i know, maybe i can get him to bring his "build it tight ventilate right" tools, not for free though to test this old house. i think a nice digital thermometer would do too but i don't want to test the opposite case as that i know would cost me extra resources.
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Architorture
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| LEED would probably take issue with having exposed EPS foam in an interior space which not only violates building codes (you need a 15 min barrier i believe) but i think EPS also does some off gasing... |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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they are sealed in a radiant barrier and the new EPS they closed the molecular gap and it is now a green product. not your grandpas foam thats for sure. with soy oils as the binders
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"EPS is 100 per cent recyclable and in the UK is currently being recycled at higher levels than either glass or aluminum. If environment credentials are important to you organization you need have no qualms about using EPS"
Used polystyrene has no impact on the environment even in landfill sites or in incinerators, nor does it contain substances that could pollute the air or soil. Crucially, the manufacture of EPS solutions does not release hydrosoluable substances that could contaminate ground water supplies either.
EPS manufacturing is free of CFCs and HCFC that may damage the ozone layer.
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please do your research and don't spread misinformation 
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extruded polystyrene or EPS also known as Styrofoam? , has been used since
the 1960’s in subsurface applications, including thermal insulation, vibration damping,
embankment stabilization, lightweight fill, and more recently, as compressible inclusions.
Some constituents used to produce EPS may be deleterious to the environment, so new
production processes are being developed to create foams more “environmentally
friendly”. Soy foam, one such foam, has been created using soy protein and water.
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
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Architorture
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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i said that i 'think' it has some off gassing issues.. which i think is true of some EPS products and definitely various other plastic foam insulations...
regardless of that the fire hazard issue is far more dangerous... unless your radiant barrier is equal to 1/2 gypsum board then it wouldn't pass code for plastic foam insulation in an interior space... |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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wanna watch the fire video?
EPS clad in a skin stands up to far beyond 15 min fire and maintains it's structural integrity, think 4 hours+
http://strataus.com/strata/MAY1506.pdf
( i cant find the video but there is a fame of it in this PDF at 14 min.)
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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so each one of these pop ins of yours is covered in a cement based product then? thats what this strata product appears to be?
that certainly wouldn't be considered a reflective radiant barrier.... |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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nope it's a curtain basically. wrapped in a Teflon material and covered in cloth
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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well see thats what i mean with the fire hazard situation... all foam plastic insulation (eps, xps, polyiso, etc) in an interior application is required to be separated from the interior space by a fire barrier that is equal to that of 1/2" gypsum board...depending on the material the thickness is different... steel is like .016" i think...
so in your situation each pop-in would need to have the equivalent of 1/2" gypsum board around all sides to seal it off from the interior space assuming these things are popped in from the interior side of a window opening...
of course all of this is just code... which i highly doubt you'll run into any kind of problem with it in your own home... although if a product of your making were placed in someone else's home or in a home design it would most likely not meet the separation requirements as described.
foam insulation has been being closely looked at lately by the various code and fire safety organizations out there due to its relatively recent widespread use in wall assemblies other than EIFS systems...
one look at that recent las vegas fire a few months ago illustrates why... when foam plastics catch on fire they burn very very quickly and when such a product is inside a wall assembly or interior space unprotected it represents a significant danger |
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