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jc4patents
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject: pulling an object to resize versus pulling to reposition |
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take an object such as a line or a rectangle and suppose you:
a) want to pull it to resize it, or
b) want to pull it to reposition.
In version 6, it seems difficult to pull to resize rather than reposition.
Is there a way to differentiate, i.e., do a) without power cadd thinking you want to do b) ?
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joseph |
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jc4patents
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think I just answered my own question - holding option down signals Power CADD that you wish to resize rather than relocate.
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GaryV
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: Resize vs Move vs Duplicate |
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Actually holding down the option key then selecting, even at the end, will dupicate the object, not resize or move it.
I must admit I often times have problems resizing by selecting the end point in PC6. Never saw this before in 2000. There are times when it takes two or three times to grab the end point and resize. Any suggestions anyone? |
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jc4patents
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:11 am Post subject: |
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maybe I am getting a bit muddled in my old age but I find the following:
a) if you draw a rectangle and then wish to pull one side to enlarge it, you find you must try several times because you will instead pull the rectangle to a new position,
b) if you first press option, and then try to pull one side to enlarge it, things work as desired, and
c) if you press option and pull the first rectangle to thus create a second rectangle, you find that, now, you can pull either of the first and second rectangles to enlarge them with no difficulty !
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 664
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Aurora, CO)
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:04 am Post subject: |
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The problem of moving instead of resizing is most likely related to the new Snap Distance feature of PCadd 6. It's easy to accidentially think a corner has been grabbed when in fact the mouse is still physically over the face of the rectangle.
This caddpower.com article describes some of the nuances of Snap Distance settings which may be helpful.
Pressing the Command key (not the Option key) will override the auto snapping and requires the cursor to be 'manually' (for lack of a better term) placed directly over the vertex of the line or rectangle. That, in turn, invokes the resize operation instead of the move cursor
hope that helps
Brian |
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jc4patents
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:32 am Post subject: |
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thanks, the cmmd key indeed does the trick - I was spending a lot of time trying to extend or shorten a line and, instead, repeatably repositioning it
I think it better to use the cmmd key rather than change the snap distance which may have other undesirable consequences.
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Ramón
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Old San Juan, Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: Still is weird |
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| I can undestand the proximity issue with trying to extend a line and ending up moving it. That still does not explain why the snap indicates, and the visual cue confirms that you are on top of the end of the line or vertex of the figure and, yet, the thing moves instead of stretch. |
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 664
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Aurora, CO)
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Still is weird |
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| Ramón wrote: | | I can undestand the proximity issue with trying to extend a line and ending up moving it. That still does not explain why the snap indicates, and the visual cue confirms that you are on top of the end of the line or vertex of the figure and, yet, the thing moves instead of stretch. |
Actually, Snap Distance does explain the condition.
Snap Indicator Activation: Snap Distance specifies how far away you can be from a basic snap point before the auto snap occurs.
The indicator activates confirming the snap whether your mouse is on the basic snap point or near it. This feedback is the underlying source of confusion when resizing/moving -- but is very clear when wanting to start or stop an object drawing operation at a basic snap point.
For example, if Snap Distance is set to 22 pixels and we want to resize an object (say a rectangle):
- the object to resize is selected and the selection arrow tool is active (not another drawing tool)
- the mouse is positioned 22 pixels from a basic snap point (e.g. the corner vertex of a rectangle)
- If the mouse is in a white area of the drawing window, then there is no way to grab to move or resize. As such, pressing the mouse will basically do nothing in this context. The snap indicator is active but we cannot grab the corner of the rectangle to resize it. Since our mouse was over a white area of the drawing, we're likely more inclined to accept that nothing happened since we didn't actually touch the object.
- If the mouse is on the object (but not directly over the basic snap point), Snap Distance assumes you want to snap to the basic snap point and the snap indicators activate. This all happens before pressing the mouse button. Since the mouse is actually 22 pixels away (The specified snap distance) but on the surface of the object, pressing the mouse button down grabs the object based on the current mouse location, not based on the snap indicator. This results in a move instead of resize operation. Earlier, when we clicked in the white area nothing happened and we typically accept that behavior. In this case, our mouse was not on the corner but the snap distance setting activated the snap indicator making us think we were going to grab the object about the corner. Instead we end up grabbing it based on the physical location of the mouse which is actually 22 pixels away (The specified snap distance) on the surface of the object.
- moving the mouse over the corner (to resize), even with the snap distance set to 22 pixels, will result in a resize operation on mouse down and drag. The snap indicator will still be active.
- Pressing Command to override the snap is optional but can be less confusing as the snap indicator does not light up (arguably providing confusing feedback). This requires more precise 'manual' positioning of the mouse before the resize operation.
The best way to experiment is to set the snap distance to the min and max values and try a basic resize operation on a rectangle from it's corner. The results will show just what's happening and how the Snap Distance setting results in the snap indicator activating which leads to confusing feedback in the context of resizing an object.
As an interface nuance, it can be confusing and in a perfect world perhaps it could be tweaked. For example, it may be that the Snap Distance settings should be ignored with the Selection Arrow tool is active. This would mean the auto snap never occurs and grabbing an object or it's edit handle would be more like pre PCadd 6 versions. Snap Distance settings could be enabled when using menu items or drawing tools as it saves considerable mouse movement and can still be overridden with the Command Key or by forcing another object snap. |
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Ramón
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Old San Juan, Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Will the condition be "fixed" by setting the snap distance to zero pixels? |
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 664
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Aurora, CO)
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ramón wrote: | | Will the condition be "fixed" by setting the snap distance to zero pixels? |
have you tried setting the distance to zero? |
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Bill Stanley
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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[For example, it may be that the Snap Distance settings should be ignored with the Selection Arrow tool is active.]
Huc,
Often I will grab an object by its center to move it to the center of another object.
Thanks for the explanations.
Bill Stanley
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 664
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Aurora, CO)
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Stanley wrote: | Often I will grab an object by its center to move it to the center of another object.
Thanks for the explanations.
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Bill
I often do the same thing...
For me and folks I train the Snap Distance issue is irrelevant and it all works just fine. I've had E and C snap drummed into me by MrE over the years so I guess it's all become a matter of memory muscle  Truthfully I don't rely on Snap Distance for anything other than drawing and even then it may be that old, good, habits (forcing E, C, %, T, P, etc snaps) need not die hard as I still force snaps 
The current Snap Distance model doesn't seem 'broken' for my work flow -- but it seems some are having confusion. Whether the operation can be made more fluid for v7 is likely a matter for separate thought and discussion.
Cheers
Huc |
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Bill Stanley
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Huc,
First thought is that the mouse could intuit whether you wanted to drag or stretch. Ha!
Second thought is that an example that is repeatable might help to understand the concern. Incidentally handle picking distance for stretching is generally 2 plus half of the pen size adjusted for the current zoom.
It means that zoom plays a role. The software version and system version being used might also play a role and since they were not mentioned it is problematic for me to comment.
Thanks.
Bill Stanley |
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Bill Stanley
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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In addition and simply put the snap indicator should not be relied on for picking a handle for stretching.
Bill Stanley |
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Rob C
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 533
Location: Southern Connecticut
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: reliable drag instead of resize |
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One trick I've used for dragging (to avoid accidental resize):
Deselect the object in question (so that the handles are not highlighted). Return to the corner you want and let the desired snap happen, then mouse down and don't let go and start your drag.
I think it was John Holland who taught me that one.
Rob |
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