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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1960
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hey don't blame me for the war. I didn't start it. I would rather just talk about architecture instead of griping about how you can't trust builders and we shouldn't have to work in a competitive world.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If architects where driving the style I guess we would all be living in modern style houses by now. |
Your still off your rocker I see...nothing much has changed around here, LOL! Architects don't design per a style...that is not the starting point. Never was, never is. However, Architects do try hard to be creative, as opposed to builders who try to do the least as possible. Architects add significant value beyond simple bricks and mortar. But it is not free either. name any single person who isn't looking out for their own interests Chris...you included. Do you work pro bono only? Gimmee a break...
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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You don't see too much Do It Yourself medical surgery.
Everyone today thinks they're an architect.
The historic roots of architecture are gone. Crafting is no longer needed to be an architect. Home Depot is the commodity of architecture and everyone can buy into it. You still need a good carpenter if you want to build it right.
I vote commodity, because we made it that way. Boat building is a complex craft and basket weaving is also difficult to master.
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1960
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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"Architects don't design per a style" yeah right. 
Of coarse I look out for myself just like everyone else. That was the point. So you can stop picking on builders because architects aren't any better.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey.....dems fightin words, why don't everybody put those broad brushes away and stop generalizing about the other "side". Every trade has its winners and losers.... so what's the point. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| birgco wrote: | | Hey.....dems fightin words, why don't everybody put those broad brushes away and stop generalizing about the other "side". Every trade has its winners and losers.... so what's the point. |
Architect is a title, not a trade.
Well at least it use to be. They're a dime a dozen now. The commodity hasn't bottomed out yet. I'm guessing it's dropping to 0.04$ a dozen based on current housing forecast. I'm willing to lay roofing shingles to survive.
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't think most people believe that AIA line that an architect will save money. They mostly think the opposite is true. If architects where driving the style I guess we would all be living in modern style houses by now. Certainly builders (like architects) have to look out for their own interests. I've seen poor work that resulted in problems to the client from both groups but by far the worst has been from architects. Thank Gehry for showing us what great design is all about. - Chris in Texas |
You always were a master at tap dancing all over the place. I don't see how you made any point about looking out for yourself. On the contrary; you were picking on Architects, basically saying Architects are only good for designing modern houses and making the worse problems and the poorest work...at least in your humble opinion.
That was your point.
My first retort was to correct you in explaining that Architects do not pull out books on "style" to begin a design. Most Architects do exactly what you've been arguing for a while in your other posts about designing based on function...unfortunately this is more true than anything else.
My second retort was in attempting to address the original comment about added value by Architects....why pay an Architect if plans can be bought off the shelf? The answer is obvious: because each site, each client, each region, etc have different needs that cannot be addressed with rubber stamped plans. Architects are knowledgable in all areas and can guide the process from start to finish. And the added costs that many may first see as unecessary elements are often those very same features that add beauty and value which when stripped away leave little behind but a box that is then equated to a modern house. Which is my third gripe about your insinuations...Architects can design any styled house if need be, but more importantly, Architects are trained to design site appropriate buildings. Any decent Architect can not only design a Craftman house, but also a contemporary interpretation of the Craftman...and a real Modern house based on platonic principles, rather than starkness that builders often try to mimick rather than comprehend the true nature of Modern design.
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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RSCarcht
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Location: USA: RI, CT, NY, MA, FL
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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You tell 'em MX2! In the post-WW II environment there was no time for architects to design even 5% of what needed to be built so architecture became a commodity and "rubber stamped" plans were built like toys and spread across the landscape.
Now that the volume need is much less and people are beginning to understand Quality (witness the rise of Starbucks) I think there is the possibility of resusitating Architecture as a complex craft and maybe (in the best instances) as an art form worthy of both future preservation and pride.
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Ross Sinclair Cann, AIA APA
http://www.a4arch.com
Last edited by RSCarcht on Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RSCarcht
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Location: USA: RI, CT, NY, MA, FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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...so here in the "Design Community" hopefully people will think of Architecture with a capital "A" in that it is a worthwhile (even timeless) Art form. Those who say design is not important and that architecture and building are mere commodities measured out in square feet alone are at long last vanquished.
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Ross Sinclair Cann, AIA APA
http://www.a4arch.com |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'll be the first to tell you who I think is an architect or not, not that it means anything.
Who cares about design? I don't. It's the stuff that's built now I worry about. Any plans for fixing the crap? I have a few.
Architects are builders, don't waste your time with design, plan the future.
Sic, some of my predictions from the old post are coming true.
I just got back from a jobsite where a RD pirated a job from an architect. One of the worst jobsites I have ever seen, it was the first time I wished an architect was around.
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RSCarcht
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Location: USA: RI, CT, NY, MA, FL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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As you have held a grudge against architects in many of your postings this is high praise indeed! I see my job as an architect is to make the life of the contractor easier by solving the problems before they get built. In turn, my hope is that they make to the project easier and less costly for the client who hired me to begin with. For the vast majority of the time, this approach works well and I have a great relationship with the builders that I work with. In fact, they are often my best source for referals.
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Ross Sinclair Cann, AIA APA
http://www.a4arch.com |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 887
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| RSCarcht wrote: | | As you have held a grudge against architects in many of your postings this is high praise indeed! I see my job as an architect is to make the life of the contractor easier by solving the problems before they get built. In turn, my hope is that they make to the project easier and less costly for the client who hired me to begin with. For the vast majority of the time, this approach works well and I have a great relationship with the builders that I work with. In fact, they are often my best source for referals. |
No grudge here. Where do you take your talents when you realize you might be exceptionally talented. I don't lose too many debates with architects.
Your problem: Job as an architect is to make the life of the contractor easier.
Commodity vs complex craft?
Defend that job description.
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RSCarcht
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Location: USA: RI, CT, NY, MA, FL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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DJ:
I am not entirely sure what your post means but I will try to respond. I was observing that architecture had become a "Commodity" when the need to build surpassed the architectural profession's capacity to design what was being built. The care, the consideration and the understanding of context were lost, at least temporarily, and a host of ugly homes, strip centers and office buildings were the result. Now that the the pace of building has slowed perhaps the "Complex Craft" of designing a building with history, technology and context in mind can return and some of those ugly, poorly built and energy-ineffecient buildings can be renovated or removed. Perhpas out in the land of Big Sky you were never hit by this era of Commodity building and, if so, you were very lucky...
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Ross Sinclair Cann, AIA APA
http://www.a4arch.com |
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nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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In the sore state of our country in which greed tromps ethics, MacManssions pollute the scenery, SUV's are the sign of affluence, degrees and licenses are obtained by cheaters, seams that everything is a comodity, from politics, were the governor's trying to sell the a senate seat to the higher bidder, my MD, who is prescribing the most expensive brand name drug instead of the cheapper generic, because he will loose his paid vacation by Pfizer or Bayer, or the architect that serves only the rich client, because there is no money in providing good housing to the masses, at an affordable price, in good taste.
I congratulate the architects with "social concience" that are or have cooperated with "ARCHITECTS WITHOUT BORDERS" or Habitat for Humanity. The world will be much happier if there was more "Architectural Social Conscience" |
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